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	<title>Comments on: What is a tester&#8217;s job?</title>
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	<link>http://www.techdarkside.com/what-is-a-testers-job</link>
	<description>Struggles of a Self-Taught Coder</description>
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		<title>By: David Christiansen</title>
		<link>http://www.techdarkside.com/what-is-a-testers-job/comment-page-1#comment-17263</link>
		<dc:creator>David Christiansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=507#comment-17263</guid>
		<description>Drew,
Here&#039;s the point I would make - if a tester does his or her job well, the bugs they find will get fixed, because they found them, described them well, and advocated them effectively. 
What I&#039;m proposing is that testers should consider whether the bugs they report get fixed as part of the criteria for determining if they are being effective. Just finding bugs and throwing them over the wall is not enough.

Whether that action strictly qualifies to be described as &quot;making the product better&quot; is a matter of semantics. I think of it like this: the product is better now because I found this bug and convinced my colleagues to fix it. Sure, I didn&#039;t fix it myself, but, if I hadn&#039;t found it, a customer would have, and the product would have suffered as a result.

So, that&#039;s my yard stick - not bugs found, or tests done, but bugs fixed. It works for me, and I think it is a good way to evaluate if I am doing  a reasonable job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drew,<br />
Here&#8217;s the point I would make &#8211; if a tester does his or her job well, the bugs they find will get fixed, because they found them, described them well, and advocated them effectively.<br />
What I&#8217;m proposing is that testers should consider whether the bugs they report get fixed as part of the criteria for determining if they are being effective. Just finding bugs and throwing them over the wall is not enough.</p>
<p>Whether that action strictly qualifies to be described as &#8220;making the product better&#8221; is a matter of semantics. I think of it like this: the product is better now because I found this bug and convinced my colleagues to fix it. Sure, I didn&#8217;t fix it myself, but, if I hadn&#8217;t found it, a customer would have, and the product would have suffered as a result.</p>
<p>So, that&#8217;s my yard stick &#8211; not bugs found, or tests done, but bugs fixed. It works for me, and I think it is a good way to evaluate if I am doing  a reasonable job.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention What is a tester’s job? -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.techdarkside.com/what-is-a-testers-job/comment-page-1#comment-17262</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention What is a tester’s job? -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=507#comment-17262</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Arnon Rotem-Gal-Oz, aldos. aldos said: @MelBugai Got me thinking. It&#039;s not a job description, and is more of a rant, but... http://www.techdarkside.com/what-is-a-testers-job [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Arnon Rotem-Gal-Oz, aldos. aldos said: @MelBugai Got me thinking. It&#039;s not a job description, and is more of a rant, but&#8230; <a href="http://www.techdarkside.com/what-is-a-testers-job" rel="nofollow">http://www.techdarkside.com/what-is-a-testers-job</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: davidray</title>
		<link>http://www.techdarkside.com/what-is-a-testers-job/comment-page-1#comment-17261</link>
		<dc:creator>davidray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=507#comment-17261</guid>
		<description>Melissa,
Well, the fact that you have managed to fit in among such smart peeps is a credit to you, but I think you&#039;re being a bit bashful by suggesting you don&#039;t do those things. It&#039;s just really, really easy the vast majority of the time for you. That might be because the things that you don&#039;t entirely control (who you work with) and the things you do control (your own behavior) work nicely together to create a really productive culture. 
 
Let me prove my point. If you had a tendency to cry wolf, or were perpetually out of sync with the devs... what would happen? Someone would fix that problem, probably through peer pressure.  
 
In other words, I think you&#039;re probably pretty good at bug advocacy. You&#039;re also in a place where bug advocacy is less about people skills and more about facts. You still have to collect and explain those facts effectively. 
 
Anyway, I think your situation brings up a good point about context. I still think a testers job is to make the product better, but what that means varies widely based on the context of the organization, product, and other things. 
 
In your case, you&#039;ve got a sweet gig and your life is pretty pleasant and productive. In another environment that is not as healthy or effective, it might mean something entirely different.  But the job is the same - to make the product better. A tester might have to do much more than test stories to make that happen, but it&#039;s still part of the job. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melissa,<br />
Well, the fact that you have managed to fit in among such smart peeps is a credit to you, but I think you&#039;re being a bit bashful by suggesting you don&#039;t do those things. It&#039;s just really, really easy the vast majority of the time for you. That might be because the things that you don&#039;t entirely control (who you work with) and the things you do control (your own behavior) work nicely together to create a really productive culture. </p>
<p>Let me prove my point. If you had a tendency to cry wolf, or were perpetually out of sync with the devs&#8230; what would happen? Someone would fix that problem, probably through peer pressure.  </p>
<p>In other words, I think you&#039;re probably pretty good at bug advocacy. You&#039;re also in a place where bug advocacy is less about people skills and more about facts. You still have to collect and explain those facts effectively. </p>
<p>Anyway, I think your situation brings up a good point about context. I still think a testers job is to make the product better, but what that means varies widely based on the context of the organization, product, and other things. </p>
<p>In your case, you&#039;ve got a sweet gig and your life is pretty pleasant and productive. In another environment that is not as healthy or effective, it might mean something entirely different.  But the job is the same &#8211; to make the product better. A tester might have to do much more than test stories to make that happen, but it&#039;s still part of the job.</p>
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		<title>By: Drew Kime</title>
		<link>http://www.techdarkside.com/what-is-a-testers-job/comment-page-1#comment-17260</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew Kime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=507#comment-17260</guid>
		<description>I disagree with the premise. Well, maybe with how you&#039;ve defined the terms.

There are three major functions in creating software: Someone has to decide what the software should do, someone has to make it do things, and someone has to evaluate what it&#039;s actually doing.

If you&#039;re not writing code, you&#039;re not making it do things. So you &lt;em&gt;can&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; make it better. As a tester, you should be telling people as accurately as possible what it&#039;s actually doing. Yes, the goal of that information is to make it better, and all the points you made about advocacy still hold. But ultimately it&#039;s the people writing code who have to make it do that.

Eventually you&#039;ll always find out if it&#039;s not doing the right thing. What testing does is let you find out before you give it to the users.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with the premise. Well, maybe with how you&#8217;ve defined the terms.</p>
<p>There are three major functions in creating software: Someone has to decide what the software should do, someone has to make it do things, and someone has to evaluate what it&#8217;s actually doing.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re not writing code, you&#8217;re not making it do things. So you <em>can&#8217;t</em> make it better. As a tester, you should be telling people as accurately as possible what it&#8217;s actually doing. Yes, the goal of that information is to make it better, and all the points you made about advocacy still hold. But ultimately it&#8217;s the people writing code who have to make it do that.</p>
<p>Eventually you&#8217;ll always find out if it&#8217;s not doing the right thing. What testing does is let you find out before you give it to the users.</p>
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		<title>By: MelBugai</title>
		<link>http://www.techdarkside.com/what-is-a-testers-job/comment-page-1#comment-17259</link>
		<dc:creator>MelBugai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=507#comment-17259</guid>
		<description>This is an intriguing post.  I agree that in many organizations that doing such work is extremely valuable and needed.  
 
Consider this: in a team composed of sensible/smart/alien-level-genius members the need for bug advocacy doesn&#039;t really arise because the business makes reasonable choices about what gets fixed when and how that gets prioritized among the backlog of other tasks.  So what does a tester do without a need for advocacy?  Just find bugs in the running software and report them?  I&#039;m okay with that if that&#039;s true. 
 
This brings me back to my original question: What is the tester&#039;s job?   
Understanding is all that I seek at this time. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an intriguing post.  I agree that in many organizations that doing such work is extremely valuable and needed.  </p>
<p>Consider this: in a team composed of sensible/smart/alien-level-genius members the need for bug advocacy doesn&#039;t really arise because the business makes reasonable choices about what gets fixed when and how that gets prioritized among the backlog of other tasks.  So what does a tester do without a need for advocacy?  Just find bugs in the running software and report them?  I&#039;m okay with that if that&#039;s true. </p>
<p>This brings me back to my original question: What is the tester&#039;s job?<br />
Understanding is all that I seek at this time.</p>
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