Comments on: The Perversity of Testing – I Lorve It http://www.techdarkside.com/the-perversity-of-testing-i-lorve-it Struggles of a Self-Taught Coder Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:25:07 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: davidray http://www.techdarkside.com/the-perversity-of-testing-i-lorve-it/comment-page-1#comment-16349 davidray Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:20:09 +0000 http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=399#comment-16349 C'mon Jim. Don't you ever find a bug in the work of someone who is a friend of yours and think "Hah - this is such a stupid bug I can't _wait_ to tease Mac about it"? I agree with your assertion that testing is good for the team, but I'm also acknowledging that finding bugs is fun, partly because sometimes the bugs you find embarrass your buddies. C'mon Jim. Don't you ever find a bug in the work of someone who is a friend of yours and think "Hah – this is such a stupid bug I can't _wait_ to tease Mac about it"?

I agree with your assertion that testing is good for the team, but I'm also acknowledging that finding bugs is fun, partly because sometimes the bugs you find embarrass your buddies.

]]> By: Geordie Keitt http://www.techdarkside.com/the-perversity-of-testing-i-lorve-it/comment-page-1#comment-16346 Geordie Keitt Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:21:49 +0000 http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=399#comment-16346 Right on, Jim. We are the holder to their kicker, the long snapper to their punter. The catcher to their pitcher. The Rodman to their Jordan. We are the mayonnaise on their BLT. Right on, Jim. We are the holder to their kicker, the long snapper to their punter. The catcher to their pitcher. The Rodman to their Jordan. We are the mayonnaise on their BLT.

]]> By: davidray http://www.techdarkside.com/the-perversity-of-testing-i-lorve-it/comment-page-1#comment-16328 davidray Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:03:18 +0000 http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=399#comment-16328 1) The devs I work with are not offended when I find bugs. They sometimes feel stupid about the bugs I find, but that's not the same thing. Other devs I've know in the past are a different story. 2) I like them both. It's fun to balance them out a bit. I do a lot of hobby-coding (trooptrack.com) and I like it too. But it doesn't have the guilty pleasures of attacking someone else's work product the way testing does. 3) Yup. 1) The devs I work with are not offended when I find bugs. They sometimes feel stupid about the bugs I find, but that's not the same thing. Other devs I've know in the past are a different story.
2) I like them both. It's fun to balance them out a bit. I do a lot of hobby-coding (trooptrack.com) and I like it too. But it doesn't have the guilty pleasures of attacking someone else's work product the way testing does.
3) Yup.

]]> By: Dennis Gorelik http://www.techdarkside.com/the-perversity-of-testing-i-lorve-it/comment-page-1#comment-16326 Dennis Gorelik Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:32:55 +0000 http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=399#comment-16326 David, 1) It's very good that you love what you do. Are you sure that developers are offended in any way when you find bugs in their code? They should be thankful. 2) Still, wouldn't you like development more than testing? 3) Yes, some pair programming with developer would help you to find bugs better. Another way to find bugs is code review of the changes your developers made. Just go into your source control, get history of code changes, and view the diffs. That's very insightful. Sometimes you would find bugs by simply looking into code. And don't be ashamed to ask developers what they meant by the code they introduce. David,

1) It's very good that you love what you do.
Are you sure that developers are offended in any way when you find bugs in their code?
They should be thankful.

2) Still, wouldn't you like development more than testing?

3) Yes, some pair programming with developer would help you to find bugs better.
Another way to find bugs is code review of the changes your developers made.
Just go into your source control, get history of code changes, and view the diffs. That's very insightful. Sometimes you would find bugs by simply looking into code.
And don't be ashamed to ask developers what they meant by the code they introduce.

]]> By: Jim Hazen http://www.techdarkside.com/the-perversity-of-testing-i-lorve-it/comment-page-1#comment-16325 Jim Hazen Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:19:13 +0000 http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=399#comment-16325 In my opinion Testing is not done to make a developer look bad, but rather to help keep them from looking bad. Testing is the other side of the coin from development and we are working 'together' to produce a product. My job is to act as the 'second set of eyes' during the project. By starting to work with Development from day one you work in parallel and collaborate (communicate), thus you get better feedback loops going on and can reduce the rework costs during the project. Software is fluid and as such you will always have 'defects' in it. By working together in a collaborative and positive manner both sides of the team can minimize the impacts and get a good win. I wouldn't call this a perverse view of the work, but one that is reality of the situation. Developers may be the quarterback on the team, but Testing is the offensive line that protects them. In my opinion Testing is not done to make a developer look bad, but rather to help keep them from looking bad. Testing is the other side of the coin from development and we are working 'together' to produce a product. My job is to act as the 'second set of eyes' during the project. By starting to work with Development from day one you work in parallel and collaborate (communicate), thus you get better feedback loops going on and can reduce the rework costs during the project.
Software is fluid and as such you will always have 'defects' in it. By working together in a collaborative and positive manner both sides of the team can minimize the impacts and get a good win.
I wouldn't call this a perverse view of the work, but one that is reality of the situation. Developers may be the quarterback on the team, but Testing is the offensive line that protects them.

]]> By: davidray http://www.techdarkside.com/the-perversity-of-testing-i-lorve-it/comment-page-1#comment-16324 davidray Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:11:05 +0000 http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=399#comment-16324 Cool Alex. Do you mean pair programming or ? Can you tell me a little bit about the mechanics of this? How do you go about testing \"with the developers\"? What is it you actually do? I'm very interested in how you are doing this and would like to know more. Cool Alex. Do you mean pair programming or ? Can you tell me a little bit about the mechanics of this? How do you go about testing \”with the developers\”? What is it you actually do? I'm very interested in how you are doing this and would like to know more.

]]> By: Alex http://www.techdarkside.com/the-perversity-of-testing-i-lorve-it/comment-page-1#comment-16322 Alex Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:04:31 +0000 http://www.techdarkside.com/?p=399#comment-16322 While I appreciate the sentiment and shared it on occasion, I prefer to test with the developers, as they code, so that their particular weaknesses are exposed immediately, and addressed, rather than introducing code with bugs in it. It will make the devs stronger coders, and will exercise your capabilities as well. While I appreciate the sentiment and shared it on occasion, I prefer to test with the developers, as they code, so that their particular weaknesses are exposed immediately, and addressed, rather than introducing code with bugs in it. It will make the devs stronger coders, and will exercise your capabilities as well.

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